I normally wouldn't post this but I found it to be a real great debate with my Jewish friend on a Yahoo political mailing list regarding my previous post. Therefore I'm going to just paste the individual emails in their order. (Its confusing as its a series of emails reedited with our new responses below, so I apologize if its a mess)
Email 1:
[Dave]This gets the big 'whatever' from me. First, Shmuley (don't you love the
name!) doesn't speak for all Jews. He's merely stating his opinion. It's one
that I happen to agree with, but that's beside the point. Shmuley's merely
exercising his freedom of speech.
Southern Baptists can believe whatever they want, for all I care (and I too am
a Jew). But Jews are also free to believe that anybody who points the finger
at them and says, "yer going to hell" is a spiritual Neanderthal. I don't
think it's much of a leap to say that a religion that teaches its adherents
that Jews are going to hell is a religion that is encouraging its adherents to
be anti-Semitic.
And I'd also say this goes a bit further than simply having another view of
heaven. Saying somebody is going to hell is akin to saying that they are evil,
and that their souls will not be saved. Once you have a view of another person
as evil, it's a fairly easy step to rationalize mistreatment of those you've
branded as evil.
My response (his statements from above edited for space):
. Shmuley's merely exercising his freedom of speech.
***********
[Ed] He’s being baldly hypocritical in my view.
I don't think it's much of a leap to say that
a religion that teaches its adherents that Jews are going to hell is
a religion that is encouraging its adherents to be anti-Semitic.
***************
[Ed] That’s a big leap. You don't believe Jesus is the messiah, does that
make you an anti Christian bigot prone to hate?
Saying somebody is going to hell is akin to saying
that they are evil, and that their souls will not be saved.
************
[Ed] "evil" is a stretch. The Baptist on the show NEVER
said they viewed Jews as "evil", just not "saved", which is their right.
Email2 (redundancies edited out):
***********
[Ed] He's being baldly hypocritical in my view.
[ David] This raises the old "is it intolerant to point out somebody
else’s intolerance" debate. But, again, religion is rife with hypocrisy.
[Ed]That’s a big leap. You don't believe Jesus is the messiah, does that
make you an anti Christian bigot prone to hate?
[ David] That's right - I don't believe Jesus is the messiah. But I have
no problem with anybody else believing that Jesus *IS* the Messiah. Unlike
Southern Baptists, I don't believe that all non-Jews are going to hell.
[ David] Saying somebody is going to hell is akin to saying
that they are evil, and that their souls will not be saved.
************
[Ed] "evil" is a stretch. The Baptist on the show NEVER said they viewed
Jews as "evil", just not "saved", which is their right.
[ David] I agree that it is their right to believe what they want to
believe. If you don't like the word "evil," substitute "sinners." I think my
point still holds.
[Ed] Fine. But some Jews believe it’s a sin to eat hot dogs. If that’s true
I'm one heck of a sinner and plan on sinning again around 12:30.
Email 3:
Shmuley's merely exercising his freedom of speech.
> ***********
[Ed] He's being baldly hypocritical in my view.
>
> [David] This raises the old "is it intolerant to point out
somebody else’s intolerance" debate. But, again, religion is rife
with hypocrisy.
************
[Ed] He's being baldly hypocritical in my view.
> [, David] This raises the old "is it intolerant to point out
somebody else’s intolerance" debate. But, again, religion is rife
with hypocrisy.
************
[Ed] True. This debate is different because resides entirely in the
realm of the spiritual. Unless, and as far as I know they haven't,
Southern Baptists actually commit bigoted ad prejudiced ACTS against
Jew's, what’s the issue? Its the Jewish thought police. If shmuley
doesn't think your version of Heaven is up to par, your a
Neanderthal. As a Jew he should know more than anyone about
persecuting someone’s religious BELIEFS, as opposed to his or her actions.
Are Southern Baptists bigots and prone to anti Semitism? I'm sure
some of them are, but attack THAT, and not their underlying belief
structure, which does not preach hate as far as I can tell.
[David] I don't think it's much of a leap to say that
> a religion that teaches its adherents that Jews are going to hell
is
> a religion that is encouraging its adherents to be anti-Semitic.
> ***************
> That’s a big leap. You don't believe Jesus is the messiah, does that
> make you an anti Christian bigot prone to hate?
>
> [David] That's right - I don't believe Jesus is the
messiah. But I have no problem with anybody else believing that
Jesus *IS* the Messiah. Unlike Southern Baptists, I don't believe
that all non-Jews are going to hell.
> > And I'd also say this goes a bit further than simply having
another
> view of heaven. Saying somebody is going to hell is akin to saying
> that they are evil, and that their souls will not be saved.
> ************
[Ed] "Evil" is a stretch. The Baptist on the show NEVER said they viewed
> Jews as "evil", just not "saved", which is their right.
>
[David] I agree that it is their right to believe what they
want to believe. If you don't like the word "evil,"
substitute "sinners." I think my point still holds.
***************
[Ed] Fine. But some Jews believe it’s a sin to eat hot dogs. If that’s true
I'm one heck of a sinner and plan on sinning again around 12:30.